00:00:39 成熟したらシンプルな方へ回帰して、複雑さが批判されるとかもありがち 00:00:47 あるある 00:23:09 まあ文化が成熟するってことは、見る側の目が肥えるってことだから 00:23:18 自然の流れだよね 00:25:48 うん 00:29:05 んでまあ、今はネットの普及で80年代や90年代に比べて、そうした目の肥えた素人の評論が可視化されやすくなってるんで 00:29:59 「矛盾をより細かく指摘する」ってのは多分今始まった風潮じゃないと思う 00:30:22 見えやすくなっただけ 00:31:08 体験から言えば 00:32:16 80～90年代のオタクコミュニティだと、人気作品のそうした細かい矛盾を指摘して、ちょっと斜に構えた評論して見せるのが 00:32:33 かっこいいって空気はあった 00:32:47 たぶん江戸時代に句会とかやってた頃から同じだと思う。 00:32:56 コミュニティ以外に出る機会がなかなかなかっただけ 00:33:09 うんうん 00:35:47 江戸後期は大衆文芸の円熟期だったから 00:36:19 やはり同様に素人評論の類は盛んだった模様 01:02:31 ! CHOBOJA (Quit: Leaving...) 01:05:38 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 01:10:09 ! AizawaYuMBA (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 01:35:54 ! Balyoshi (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:42:43 + Balyoshi (Balyoshi!username@k161241.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 01:42:50 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Balyoshi 02:45:54 ! LizardMen (Quit: はーい、お疲れ様。今回の 成 果を発表するわね♪) 02:54:09 ! Balyoshi (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:06:15 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 03:10:42 ! AizawaYuMBA (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:11:36 ! syo (Quit: Leaving...) 03:38:50 ! yamano (Quit: Leaving...) 04:52:42 ! Prof_M_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:53:03 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 04:53:19 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 04:55:45 ! ponzz (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 04:55:45 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:57:50 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 04:58:02 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 05:07:10 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 05:07:10 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:08:16 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 05:08:36 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 05:11:54 ! AizawaYuMBA (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:11:54 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:12:40 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 05:12:55 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 06:28:03 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:29:23 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 06:29:43 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 06:31:53 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:34:06 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 06:34:12 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 07:08:06 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 07:08:06 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:08:39 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 07:09:00 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 07:12:49 ! AizawaYuMBA (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 07:37:47 + yamano (yamano!yamano@p3a57c6a8.sigant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 09:02:16 ! imo (Quit: Leaving...) 09:04:54 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 09:18:00 ! AizawaYuMBA () 09:18:14 + AizawaYuMBA (AizawaYuMBA!aizawayumb@i125-206-7-185.s41.a012.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 09:24:59 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:25:38 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 09:25:55 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 09:36:44 + H_Aoi (H_Aoi!H_Aoi@121-82-194-211f1.hyg2.eonet.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 09:58:28 + meltdown (meltdown!meltdown@124-110-108-191.shizuoka.fdn.vectant.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 10:03:54 ! yamano (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:09:11 + Balyoshi (Balyoshi!username@k161241.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 10:09:11 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:09:23 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Balyoshi 10:10:12 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 10:10:35 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 10:53:59 + V-zEn (V-zEn!V-zEn@27.250.2.103.shared.user.transix.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 11:03:28 + syo (syo!syo@catv110-113.lan-do.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 11:03:28 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:03:36 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o syo 11:05:12 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 11:05:23 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 11:53:01 + syo_ (syo_!syo@catv110-113.lan-do.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 11:53:13 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o syo_ 11:53:53 ! syo (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 12:12:17 ! AizawaYuMBA () 12:18:49 + yamano (yamano!yamano@p3a57c6a8.sigant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 12:51:52 + ponzz (ponzz!ponzz@245.222.13.160.dy.iij4u.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 12:59:19 + LizardMen (LizardMen!LZD@user19043.gctv.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 13:03:40 + syo (syo!syo@catv110-113.lan-do.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 13:03:49 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o syo 13:05:21 ! syo_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:54:57 ! V-zEn (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:58:09 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:58:30 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 13:58:36 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 14:14:41 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:15:02 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 14:15:11 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 15:07:08 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:07:44 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 15:07:52 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 15:54:20 ! kairi (Quit: See you...) 15:59:06 ! yamano (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:25:43 + yamano (yamano!yamano@p3a57c6a8.sigant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 17:11:25 ! akiraani (Quit: 心の豊かさをHDDの中に求めれば、部屋なんて狭くても良い) 17:15:05 + akiraani (akiraani!akiraani@KD106154009216.au-net.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 17:47:12 + mjolnir2k (mjolnir2k!mjolnir2k@softbank126141239131.bbtec.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:01:38 + Kannna (Kannna!Kannna@softbank126036106010.bbtec.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:05:21 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:07:18 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:07:32 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 18:25:02 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:25:52 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:26:01 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 18:30:38 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:32:36 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:32:50 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 18:34:26 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:35:00 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:35:11 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 18:38:38 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:39:23 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:39:36 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 18:47:46 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:50:10 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 18:50:19 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 19:05:53 ! aokaze (Quit: Leaving...) 19:38:06 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:38:50 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 19:38:55 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 19:44:51 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:45:17 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 19:45:22 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 19:45:36 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:45:58 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 19:46:03 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 19:46:57 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:48:41 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 19:48:57 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 20:02:32 Kannna -> KannnaOUT 20:02:32 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:03:09 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:03:17 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 20:10:42 + CHOBOJA (CHOBOJA!choboja@118.176.105.49) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:22:07 KannnaOUT -> Kannna 20:22:18 + seiryuu (seiryuu!seiryuu@node-kms.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:23:35 + aba[AWAY0 (aba[AWAY0!aba@softbank126045142098.bbtec.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:23:47 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:24:05 + aba[f]0 (aba[f]0!aba@softbank126045142098.bbtec.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:24:12 Mode by koi-chanSRV: #もの書き予備@cre +oo aba[AWAY0 aba[f]0 20:25:53 ! aba[AWAY] (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:25:58 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:26:04 Mode by aba[AWAY0: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 20:26:31 ! aba[f] (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20:29:12 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:30:22 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:30:42 Mode by aba[AWAY0: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 20:55:29 + akiraani_ (akiraani_!akiraani@KD106154011199.au-net.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:55:29 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:56:59 + imo (imo!imo@123.230.118.240.eo.eaccess.ne.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:57:12 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:57:22 Mode by aba[AWAY0: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 20:58:49 ! akiraani (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20:58:49 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:59:35 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 20:59:43 Mode by aba[AWAY0: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 21:31:21 aba[AWAY0 -> aba[AWAY] 21:31:38 aba[f]0 -> aba[f] 21:31:43 ! aba[f] (Quit: ごきげんよう) 21:36:46 + aba[f] (aba[f]!aba@softbank126045142098.bbtec.net) to #もの書き予備@cre 21:37:05 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:37:15 Mode by Toybox: #もの書き予備@cre +o aba[f] 21:37:47 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o aba[f] 21:38:10 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 21:38:25 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M 22:15:24 + kairi (kairi!UserID@i121-117-131-98.s41.a030.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 22:25:52 ! seiryuu (Quit: Leaving...) 22:47:30 ! Kannna (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:06:08 ! mjolnir2k (Quit: Leaving...) 23:14:40 ! meltdown (Quit: 皆様に「砂漠の風」のあらんことを) 23:36:17 ! yamano (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 23:43:56 + kairi_ (kairi_!UserID@i121-117-131-98.s41.a030.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 23:45:21 ! kairi (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 23:57:05 ! Prof_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:59:33 + Prof_M (Prof_M!moriarty@i219-167-215-88.s02.a004.ap.plala.or.jp) to #もの書き予備@cre 23:59:55 Mode by aba[AWAY]: #もの書き予備@cre +o Prof_M